Thursday, October 09, 2008

Will It Matter?

There are two Americas. No it is not gap between rich and poor, or between white and minority, but a much more substantial and divisive gap.

It's a philosophical gap.

On the one side is the conservatives who, generally speaking, believe that you have choices and are responsible for the consequences of those choices. Sometimes the right choice is hard and can be nearly impossible to make, but even then the choice is yours. Every decision has consequences and it is up to you to face the consequences of those choices, though others who care about you can and should assist you as they are able and it truly benefits you. Our idea of freedom is to resist and overcome the dark side of your nature so that you can reach your full potential as an animal made in God's image. Some would be tyrants are drawn to this because they can use "in God's name" as a source of power. Some non-religious people are drawn to this worldview because they recognize the reality and importance of free will.

On the other side are the liberals who generally believe that our genes, environment and upbringing has inevitable results and you really never had a choice because the decision was made for you by forces beyond your control. To these people I am a Christian not because I chose to believe but my upbringing programmed me to believe. They believe that abstinence is impossible because young people are designed and programmed to have sex and really have no choice in the matter. Their idea of freedom is surrendering to your true nature because the choice has already been made for you because you are nothing more than an instinct driven animal which happens to have a remarkable brain. You need the elite to guide and direct you for the benefit of all. They will manipulate some religious organizations to serve their worldview by wrapping it in religious talk and symbols. Would by tyrants are drawn to this worldview because it justifies their tyranny in the name of "the greater good".

In the end the real difference between the right and the left is their core philosophies, and economic and identity differences are nothing more than window dressing or a consequence of their worldview. There are also greedy and benevolent on both sides of the divide.

In the end this philosophical divide is so intrinsic that a system that satisfies both groups is impossible. Each sees the other as ignorant and unrealistic and each is convinced of the absolute rightness of their worldview.

Regardless of who wins the election I fear that a violent clash between the two Americas is probably inevitable because each side is convinced that other must have never have power of their lives. I don't mean it will happen next year but it is inevitable.

I am conservative and absolutely do not want the left to have any say whatsoever in my life. I do not want people who think that real choice and true freedom are illusions to make choices for me.


Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Shop: up to a point, that's precisely correct. But here is what I believe is the most pointed difference:

Up until only, say, the mid-to-late 80s was it assumed that the primary voice was the Liberal voice. The true Conservative voice was, year by year, being pushed aside -- primarily beginning with the so-called counterculture of MY generation, in the mid-to-late 60s. The loudest voices, the most strident voices, the voices acquiring the most attention were those of the more Leftist and Socialist leaning counterculture which, also, presented itself in terms of much violence with the SLA, SDS, Weather Underground, Black Panthers and more.

A major Sea Change occurred on a number of fronts with Rush Limbaugh. An entire legion of persons known as Conservatives (NOT "neocons", whatever the hell that term means) discovered they were not alone; that their values were not the massive, very rare exception. That they actually had proper thoughts, logical thoughts, cohesive and positive thoughts, and they had an epiphany in terms of the venue, RADIO, the message, CONSERVATISM, and the index messenger, Rush Limbaugh.

Once Conservatism actually found its voice, discovered its volume, the more that people realized their Conservative commonalities, the more the Left also coalesced and pushed back because, they realized at least a bit in the beginning, they were actually being CHALLENGED. They were not simply taken at face value any more.

Now, Conservatism is in full singing chat. And not just singly, but in full chorus. Conservatives have been successful in radio, on the internet, in many published magazines and books, they're beginning to make inroads on TV while, on the other hand, many Left-leaning media forums are moribund -- to include the collapse of newspapers, some television outlets.

The Left are being second-guessed and challenged at a rate never before experienced and, as far as they are concerned, this must stop and stop immediately and stop by any fashion possible. To include the removal of actual American freedoms.

THAT is why this is potentially a dangerous time; yes, for the reasons you delineate, but also for the unbridled challenge and THREAT that truth and Conservatism represent to those who are historically used to getting their way on most every level.

I say and will continue to say: whoever controls Education and SCOTUS controls the United States. The Left cannot usually acquire its agenda through normal channels; they'll instead (and readily ARE) hijack education and hijack the ultimate United States court.

Which is why, AGAIN, I am voting for the McCain/Palin ticket.


5:19 PM  
Blogger Chuck said...

There is becoming a wide rift between the two camps and it is only getting wider. If Obama wins with a Democratic congress it will get even worse. If Obama wins with a super majority congress, it will get ugly.

5:41 PM  
Blogger shoprat said...

BZ I'm with you 100% but I still believe that a violent confrontation between the two worldviews is inevitably in our future, be it 1 year or 20 years from now.

6:01 PM  
Blogger Dee said...

Well said!!! Thats why I will never understand those swing voters who go back and forth between parties.

1:30 AM  
Blogger christian soldier said...

sr and BZ-
I used to look to examples like--the growing homeschool movement-the blogs-and Rush L.-- and say-" will take time - but- we can get this country back."
Unfortunately-the homeschooled youngsters go the universities that have instructors like Ayers!
The evil "they" are increasingly controlling speech...
"They" have developed so many "victims" that vote for "they" (them) by giving said victims our tax $$$....

We have allowed a whirl-wind and we will pay for our lack of watchfulness..

I want peace but I will prepare for war....

It's getting late-so I'll probably see our situation a little more positively tomorrow .... or maybe not....

2:32 AM  
Blogger Average American said...

I consider myself a "conservatively leaning moderate", and so feel I can give some good advice here. Don't be so hard line conservative that you (the all-inclusive you) push the majority of Americans (moderates) into the wrong camp. I myself would NEVER go that way, but many could. I'll just give one example. Abortion. I am against abortion. I do not however think that the government should make it their business. I also don't want my tax dollars pay to for it. My stand is, don't make it 100% illegal, but don't make it so easy that it replaces birth control. This is an issue that really is next to impossible to compromise on, but, being 100% conservative on this one tends to lose people to the "dark side". We will never live in a perfect world. We just have to do the best we can.

2:51 AM  
Blogger Gayle said...

I agree with you, Shoprat. The gap is so wide that "never the twain shall meet" unless it is in battle! There is no compromising with such a philosophy as the liberals hold. None!

Excellent post!

10:07 AM  
Blogger shoprat said...

average american
I could live with state sovereignty over these issues but the left won't even allow that compromise. I favor abortion under a few limited circumstances but never simply for convenience.

11:47 AM  
Blogger BB-Idaho said...

Joe Scarborough mentioned that the GOP has turned far right since he was a part of 'Newt's Legions'.
I wonder.....

1:22 PM  
Blogger shoprat said...

please do not misunderstand me.

I am not encouraging this or looking for to it.

I am anticipating it as I see a growing divide. I am clearly on one side but would rather it not come to bloodshed, but I believe it will unless both sides simultaneously offer a hand of truce.

1:37 PM  
Blogger shoprat said...

Yes some of the GOP has moved right but since Newt was there the DEMs have rejected the centrist policies of the DLC and has embraced the hate-filled lunacy of the Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground. They have moved much further to the left than we have to the right.

1:41 PM  
Blogger BB-Idaho said...

There seems enough 'hate-filled luncacy to go around..that old feller raving about socialism at the McCain rally a couple days back. We suffer through our opponent's victories..I didn't care for Reagan or Bush. But we
take it on the chin and bear up.
Anything less would be un-American. :)

4:16 PM  
Blogger NEO, SOC said...

Excellent post, shoprat!

The inevitable clash is the is the long awaited next Civil War. I just pray the Democrats are not in control when it happens. They would be far worse than the Republicans who could be just as tyrannical (they have shown some signs of it already). Darfur will be nothing compared to the bloodshed we will see. That's why the hard left is so pressed to disarm those of us who will fight to the bitter end.

6:09 PM  
Blogger Z said...'s coming to a point where some of us can't "take it on the chin and bear up". There comes a point where we have to do something.

LIke or hate Obama, he's going toward socialism and our universities have primed 2 whole generations for its acceptance, you know that, don't you? Some of us want to fight for our consitution, to ensure it stays the law of the land and is strictly adhered to.

I think this is one of the very best pieces I've ever read on line, shoprat. NO lie. I am forwarding your site address to non-blogger friends and copying/pasting for those not on line at all.

It's a terrible thought, this divide growing and getting irreparable, but it's important to know because I do believe there is no solution...or very little solution to it. It's a shocking thing and I don't know where this'll go.

There are Liberals who're trying to change things drastically; you explained that perfectly. There are Conservatives clinging to the values of our forefathers, and I don't see the Left giving in. HOw can Conservatives? How can we go THIS far from what our country's always meant? ..well, I could say plenty, but I've said about enough. this is excellent thinking/writing, shoprat..thanks.

6:46 PM  
Blogger cube said...

Excellent post. Let's hope come November, there are more of us than there are of them.

BTW I'm here via Z's blog.

7:17 PM  
Blogger da patriot said...

You nailed that one. Excellent analysis.

8:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shoprat, Terrific article. Hard to find anything to disagree with. I do think the country will not rise or fall on the abortion issue.

There are more urgent issues to consider and for me, that's not one of them.

bb - Scarborough has been working with liberals too long to remember what a true conservative is. If anything liberals have moved farther left. They are poised to vote for a dyed in the wool socialist, and I'm putting a good face on it at that.

Interesting isn't it SR, that elites who think they are more enlightened, evidently believe they're a little less animal than the rest of us!

I agree that it seems inevitable that a violent clash may be in our future. I do fear for my children and grandson, that the future is even questionable in our great nation.


8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was an excellent article, and an equally thought-inspiring commentary. Like AA, I see myself first and foremost, an American who dearly loves my country. In the Marines, I never swore an oath to a president, or a political party; I swore allegiance to the Constitution of the United States. Politically, I see myself as a moderated conservative. And it occurs to me that if a united nation has value to us, then there must be room for disagreement and a willingness to find the middle road. We’ve done this successfully for 233 years, and there is no reason we can’t do that for another 1,000.

But I find myself agreeing with BZ too. I taught public high school for fifteen years, and have first hand knowledge that socialists and multiculturalists have hijacked our educational system. The effect of this is self-evident; my only confusion is why taxpayers and parents who dearly love their children put up with what has happened. At this point, there is no “fix.” We need to scrap it and begin anew—but don’t think for a New York minute you could gain consensus on that idea.

The GOP cannot survive without a willingness to widen its base. As conservatives, we have core values but there is also a political spectrum within the conservative party. Where I think Shop rat errs is in his assumption that one day, only political extremes will exist. I don’t see that happening because it is not in the nature of Americans to adore radicals of any persuasion. Still, we must admit there is no paucity of political vitriol, from the left or right. Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly has as loud and nauseating demeanor as does Michael Kinsey or Alan Colmes. I suspect there is a correlation between loud voices and non-functional brains – but that’s just a theory. But notice these “leading mouths” have set the tone of discussion for the rest of us. Most of us refuse to sign on to it . . . as evidenced by many outstanding bloggers, several of whom I admire, and a number of whom are involved in this discussion.

Like many here, I abhor socialism; yet I recognize there is a role for government to play within our society. It is the nature of Democracy to do ever more for our people, and it requires vigilance because we must know when enough is enough. I will continue to oppose socialism with my words and deeds; but I will never burn down a socialist’s house unless it is in self-defense (LOL).

8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shoprat that was one HELL of a post! Thank you sir.


9:33 PM  
Anonymous rivka said...

better wake up. the left is in the process of crushing you dimbulbs, but they don't need any help thanks to your crushing incompetence.

9:36 PM  
Blogger Patrick Joubert Conlon said...

"In the end this philosophical divide is so intrinsic that a system that satisfies both groups is impossible."

The divisions are magnified and exaggerated by the media. Most Americans are in the middle and moderate. Our Founders were well aware of this and devised a "system that satisfies both groups" - the Constitution.

But, unfortunately, because our education system is run by people like Ayers, the world is moving more to the Left. Fortunately we'll probably all be dead before the dawning of the Brave New World.

10:02 PM  
Blogger Z said...

Mustang, don't BOTHER ME NOW with rational thought and magnanimity. I am TOO busy being a REALLY ticked off CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN and I will ignore your comments (LOL!) I don't WANT to be calmed down, I choose to be REALLY angry right now. I can't stand the idea of Colmes being considered on the same par with Rush (tho I don't listen much to Rush). Colmes IS a socialist and I just can't LET this country sink that far. (ya, I CAN"T, as if I have anything to say about it, right?!!!!)

there, I've said it! (Smile)

Mr. Conlon's comment is also a good one: It's a well known fact that our schools were overtaken and our kids have been indoctrinated. BUT, I do feel better considering that most Americans are not extreme in their politics, as he suggests. It's a thought. I hope it's true.

10:44 PM  

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