Sunday, December 30, 2007


I remember my old languages professor telling us that even when he couldn't afford it he tried to either spend or put aside $10 a week on books (and this was back when a good quality paperback cost one or two dollars, and very few hardcovers cost more than ten dollars.)

I remember watching a black leader on TV telling young black men that he wanted them to buy two books for every CD they bought.

We underestimate the value of a book and the gift of literacy.

I once had the privilege of meeting a retired (25+ years ago) Detroit Tiger who was functionally illiterate when he joined the team. He was in my store just talking to some kids, and each person who asked him a question, before he answered he would ask "Do you know how to read?" and he eventually came to a young man who hesitated before he eventually said "Yeah". The retired Great One pointed to a sign on my office door (EMPLOYEES ONLY - - ALARM WILL SOUND) and said "Read that sign to me." The kid couldn't do it and the former Tiger lit into him, letting him know that "I was ripped off for a lot of money because I did not know how to read! You want to get ripped off? You just stay illiterate and ignorant! It isn't 'Acting White' to know how to read, it's acting smart." Then with his face inches from the stunned @12 yrs old boy, he said "You learn to READ! or you WILL be ripped off and have nothing but troubles." Then he calmed down and told the rest of the kids that he couldn't emphasize it enough, if you learn to do just one thing, make it being able to read. He was impressive as a player and even more impressive as a man.

There are so many good books being published today that it is impossible to keep up with them. Many of our best books were written years ago.

Everyone should have a library no matter if it is written on paper or stored on CDs. With electronic books everyone could have libraries of thousands of works.

I want to recommend a website that most probably know about but if you don't, it is worth the effort and time. You can download over 120,000 books directly or indirectly from this site and most of them, the public domain ones, are free. You won't get a recent book here, but there are literally thousands of classics, of all types, available here.

Gutenberg On-Line Library.

There is a secondary site that is part of Gutenberg, that isn't the primary site but it is easier to work from.

No matter if you buy the books, borrow them from a library, or download them, read and it is better to keep a collection of, not necessarily the best books, but the books and writers that you like the best. And the best books, like movies, are the ones you enjoy or learn from, over and over again.

Friday, December 28, 2007

Anti-Jihad Firework Warnings

I am not sure if this is supposed to be a satire on Terrorists or simply a "be careful with fireworks" public announcement, but they are funny.

The organization that they are mocking is the Liberation Army Against Freedom.

H/T to Gates of Vienna.

A Chance to Get Rich

So a father gives his 10 year old daughter an MP3 and she discovers it's loaded with pornography and violence.

Walmart, where it was purchased is stunned but offers to replace the item.

The father will not let Walmart replace it but is in the process of getting a lawyer.

If Walmart had simply gone in with a "Who? Us? We would never allow that to happen." attitude I would be totally sympathetic to the father. Walmart however offered to replace the item and is investigating to find out how it happened.

The fact that the father has denied Walmart the opportunity to make it right tells me one thing. He is a greedy cretin who smells a cash windfall from a lawsuit against a big company. A pox on both this greedy man and any lawyer unscrupulous enough to take this case.

Beware and be on your guard against every form of greed. Luke 12:15

I do not blame him for being angry about his daughter getting a porn loaded item, but I do blame him for using it as a get-rich-quick scheme.

Since it arrived prepackaged at Walmart, I would guess that the pornography was loaded into it earlier, somewhere else.

Update: Some would argue that Walmart is a big company and needs to be held responsible. Well first off Walmart probably didn't do it and secondly, they were acting responsibly. There is a mindset out there that thinks that the rich, the strong, and the powerful are always wrong by nature of their power. That goes back to Senator Ted Kennedy's question to (now) Chief Justice Roberts during his confirmation hearings, "Would you be a Chief Justice who stands up for the little guy." and Justice Roberts rightly answered him that he would stick up for whoever was right under the law, big or little. We must have this attitude: that justice is not a question of wealth or power, but simply who is right and who is wrong; it is quite possible for the "little guy" to be completely in the wrong.

More Than Kissing Cousins.

While I think the world of most of my cousins, I never, ever considered marrying a first or second cousin. I don't think most of us would have considered it and it is now fairly rare in America, though it does happen from time to time. An occasional marriage between first cousins probably isn't that big of a problem, but . . . if it happens generation after generation after generation, then problems can and probably will occur.

Jokes are told about the American Hillbillies and their inbreeding, and it is based on fact, but it is probably due more to isolation than to any other cause, and it seems to be a problem that has largely faded in Appalachia.

However, it is very common in much of the Middle East, and is detrimental to both society and the individuals. While I was quite aware of the genetic problems of repeated, multi-generational Consanguinity, I never considered the societal implications that are also a major problem. If your Mother and Father are cousins and virtually your whole social setting is one big family, then family ties become so important that national ties become difficult.

By fostering intense family loyalties and strong nepotistic urges, inbreeding makes the development of civil society more difficult. Many Americans have heard by now that Iraq is composed of three ethnic groups -- the Kurds of the north, the Sunnis of the center, and the Shi'ites of the south. Clearly, these ethnic rivalries would complicate the task of ruling reforming Iraq. But that's just a top-down summary of Iraq's ethnic make-up. Each of those three ethnic groups is divisible into smaller and smaller tribes, clans, and inbred extended families -- each with their own alliances, rivals, and feuds. And the engine at the bottom of these bedeviling social divisions is the oft-ignored institution of cousin marriage.

The fractiousness and tribalism of Middle Eastern countries have frequently been remarked. In 1931, King Feisal of Iraq described his subjects as "devoid of any patriotic idea, ? connected by no common tie, giving ear to evil; prone to anarchy, and perpetually ready to rise against any government whatever." The clannishness, corruption, and coups frequently observed in countries such as Iraq appears to be in tied to the high rates of inbreeding.

Muslim countries are usually known for warm, devoted extended family relationships, but also for weak patriotism. In the U.S., where individualism is so strong, many assume that "family values" and civic virtues such as sacrificing for the good of society always go together. But, in Islamic countries, loyalty to extended (as opposed to nuclear) families is often at war with loyalty to nation. Civic virtues, military effectiveness, and economic performance all suffer.
Link (Actually the whole article is worth the read.)

The importance of family in society cannot be underplayed and neglecting the family is disastrous to society at large, but it still must not be allowed to become a "our family" against the world mindset.

Then of course there are the medical problems of marriage between cousins for many generations.

It needs to be noted that this is not an exclusively an Islamic problem as it also exists amongst other religious groups in the Middle-East.

Come to think of it, I once did fall hard for a young woman who had the same last name I do, but we were not close relatives

Thursday, December 27, 2007

I am Yoda


A venerated sage with vast power and knowledge, you gently guide forces around you while serving as a champion of the light.

Judge me by my size, do you? And well you should not - for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminescent beings are we, not this crude matter! You must feel the Force around you, everywhere.

Yoda is a is a character in the Star Wars universe. More Yoda information is available at the Star Wars Databank.

Which Fantasy/SciFi Character Are You?

Which SciFi/Fantasy Character are you?

Update: Benning from Benning's Writing Pad has also offered this quiz.

Memories - - Christmas Past

Ah Christmas - - to a child a time of wonder . . . and of course gifts.

The first gift I remember receiving was when I was probably 3 years old. It was a stuffed Huckleberry Hound with a hard plastic face. Now if you remember from the old cartoons, Huckleberry Hound was blue, but my stuffed one was red. That stuffed dog stayed on my bed until I was in my teens. Eventually it got put away because most of the stuffing was gone out of it, but I think my mother still has it in storage somewhere. I have found a couple on auction (though I don't know how long the link will last) but it was apparently done by Knickerbocker. Says it's rare. Mine is probably in Mom's storage chest with other old things, but it's not in that good of condition.

I must have been about 4 when I got Lincoln Logs which still exist but I don't know of too many kids who play with them.

When I was 5 years old I got a playset was either Fort Apache or else a knock-off on it (I really don't know) that had cowboys and Indians and loads of fun. Within a year I had moved away from cowboys and Indians and into toy soldier sets.

When I was 6 I got two items that I drew a lot of fun from. "Santa" gave me an Erector Set, that I was really too young for but that didn't stop me from building and building and building. That same year my Grandmother gave me a doll for boys that had just come out: GI Joe. I enjoyed him for years on end and I think he is still in storage near my old Huckleberry Hound. (We are talking the old dolls that were a foot tall, not the smaller action figures that took the same name.)

One of my favorite Christmas gifts of all time was one that I got when I was 10. It was called Super City and it was a building construction set consisting of hard plastic frames that were interlocking, and various types of panels that fit inside the frames allowing you to build anything you could imagine. I don't know what became of it.

I was 11 or 12 and I got a very good Chemistry set that I was still messing around with when I graduated from High School. I don't know what became of it either.

Of course I gave and received many gifts over the last 50 Christmases but it's the gifts I got as a child that bring about memories.

Absurd Law Enforcement

We can't do so many things to protect the public but we can take zero-tolerance in weapons at school to Point Ridiculous.

I am glad they dropped the charges, but they should have never been filed in the first place. The school employee who reported this "incident" to the police should, at the very least, be suspended without pay for a couple of weeks. This person isn't smart enough to work in the public schools.

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

How Vulnerable Are We?

I was just at our local Walmart and I was fortunate that I was not using a gift card. It seems that their entire gift card system is down and can't be used at the moment. The cashier said that it was nation-wide, though I am skeptical of that as there is no reference to it on the news. I guess it's possible.

It started me thinking though. We are very dependent on a network of computers for so many things. We use them for entertainment, communication, news, business, shopping, creativity etc and yet the system is vulnerable. I have multiple shields defending my system yet still get that occasional bit of spyware, or even more rarely, a virus.

A computer savvy lunatic with a bit of determination and the right information could do serious damage to this country, even bring it to a standstill. I am not saying it would be easy or is going to happen tomorrow, but it is a possibility that cannot be ignored. Also other countries are studying our net and you can be sure that some of them would like to find weaknesses that can be exploited. This would probably be cheaper, and in a way more devastating than most Weapons of Mass Destruction.

I generally disdain giving the Feds more power or responsibility, but this might be an area where they may have a legitimate job to do. Perhaps an agency whose sole purpose is to probe the net for weaknesses and plug them, as well as track down viruses, spyware, and other dangerous programs that could, theoretically, be a major threat to our country.

Monday, December 24, 2007

Merry Christmas

(I don't know who did the picture; I got it as an E-mail years ago.)

Update: I can't believe I misspelled Merry in the title and didn't notice. Corrected.

Sunday, December 23, 2007

Prince Caspian Is Coming Along

You can see the trailer for the next installment of The Chronicles of Narnia at this site and also some set and publicity stills.

For those not familiar with the second book (in the original sequence - - in the spit, gag new sequence its the fourth book) I'll give a no-spoiler background of the story. The Pevensie children have been back in England for a year and are waiting in a train station to go to school when they are suddenly pulled onto an island. They are back in Narnia and over a thousand years have passed. They are near mythical people. Over the years other humans had arrived in and conquered Narnia, driving the magic creatures and talking animals into hiding. Evil King Miraz, of the humans, is a usurper even amongst the humans and their rightful king is young Prince Caspian, the nephew of Miraz. Caspian learns that he is the rightful king and that his uncle plans to kill him so he flees. He is found by the old Narnians and he gains their trust and friendship as he agrees to restore old Narnia if they help him defeat Miraz. They're losing the war badly when they use Susan's magic horn in an attempt to contact Aslan and perhaps four ancient kings and queens.

The above picture shows King Edmund, High King Peter, Prince Caspian, Queen Susan and Trumpkin the Dwarf.

Queen Lucy and Aslan.

Thursday, December 20, 2007

Chrstmas Break

Today we had our shop Christmas party and were sent home.

For 2 weeks.

I am not complaining in the least.

It seems that when you work you have less time to do other things. (like sleeping and blogging.)

I've been sliding lately and now maybe I can turn it around, do some research, and write some things worth reading.

Not to mention get my apartment clean again.

Fellow Blogger Needs Prayers.

Bob, who frequently visits and comments here has had a heart attack. He appears to be ok but keep him in your prayers.

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

The Hobbit

The Lord of the Rings trilogy was an unqualified hit around the world as Peter Jackson did what JRR Tolkien considered impossible and made a quality movie of the books.

Jackson earlier expressed interest in doing the prequel to LOTR, The Hobbit. This had been done earlier as a childrens' cartoon by Rankin/Bass. It was cute and enjoyable but not nearly as great as the movie.

Well Jackson will not be the director, but they are doing it! Jackson does not have the time to do it but wants it done. Whoever is chosen to direct the movie will be working from Peter Jackson's foundation.


It will be a few years but I can't wait.

Monday, December 17, 2007

Yellow Flashing Light

Genetics and artificial genetic manipulation are a growing science and a growing concern. Some dream of, not only altering existing organisms, but creating new ones. In fact they are already doing some amazing things some of which are very useful to humanity. However they also have concerns about the dangers. They speak of the ability to create a virus from scratch; I don't know if I like that idea at all (but Osama might).

Personally I favor some genetic manipulation but I believe we need to exorcise extreme caution. I would prefer that experiments be done in total isolation from the environment and extra caution be practiced against letting these things into our environment.

I know I sound like a leftist here but this is potentially dangerous stuff. We have seen what happens when a natural living organism is introduced into an environment where it has no predators; could you imagine what would happen if an artificial lifeform got lose into the environment. I'm not saying "Don't do it!" but I am saying be careful.

I would love to see perennial wheat and corn that only has to planted once every few years and grows again in succeeding growing seasons. For farmers it would be a boon, but what would happen if (when) it gets into the natural ecosystem? I think we should go with it, but we need to find a way to contain it. I have a couple of ideas of how it could be done, but they to bring up other concerns.

Some say this is playing God and perhaps they are right, but we are an animal made in the image of God.

I remember reading a Star Trek novel a number of years ago where they referred to some synthetic plants that farmers grew in the 22nd Century including a plant whose fruit looked and tasted like steak. Can we do it? I don't know.

Anyway, what new critters would we create? Do we look at the AD&D Monster Manual or what?

Sunday, December 16, 2007

Just How Bad is Our Economy?

I knew that Michigan has the worst economy in the country, but even still, this is astonishing.

Unemployed Michigan workers are lining up to get jobs in


Now granted the situation in Iraq is improving considerably, but if I go there I want a gun, flak jacket, and combat training. Our military is doing a good job there but I do not believe it is yet safe enough for a large number of civilians except for specialists who support the pacification and reconstruction process. It is still a war zone and the work should be done by military personnel.

Of course there are neighborhoods in Detroit whose violence would give most of Iraq a run for its money. Asked about fear of violence, one Detroiter, Marceilos Davis, 27, of Detroit said, “That’s a no-brainer. From the neighborhood I live in, it’s no different than Iraq. I’m not scared.”

Still, it shines the light on our states mighty economic engine.

H/T Dr. Sanity

Friday, December 14, 2007

Blame It on Rock and Roll

The recent killing at a church and separate church function by a crazed individual is tragic on so many levels. In this case the old cliche' The Devil made me do it may have some truth to it.

An article from World Net Daily suggests that he was a devil worshiper and demonized. I do not doubt that at all.

But some of the things that are said about Rock music bothers me.

The article describes rock music as a a drug and inherently evil.

Most forms of music, including rock, that involve lyrics are a medium of communication, just as writing or talking are mediums of communication. Rock music is a musical style. The problem is not the medium or the style but the message that is given through the medium. The message itself can be very good or very evil, or even morally neutral. The medium itself is only as good or evil as the message it carries.

Rock personalities run the gamut and are probably a typical cross-section of America.

Christians -- Petra (see below)
Decent Secular Patriots --- Ted Nuggent
Middle of the road people -- Most of them
Questionable People

You will find rock stars of all these descriptions and their messages run the full spectrum of belief, morality, and politics.

Some of my fellow fundamentalists mistakenly believe that Rock music is inherently Satanic. Even the Chic Tract Angels comes right out and says that all Christian rock bands are fake and secret Satanists. (Jack Chic's source of information is a pair of pathological liars named John Todd and Alberto Riviera who have hoodwinked and seriously misled this good intentioned man -- Google them if you're not familiar with them.)

There is no doubt that some rock music acts are Satanic, but claiming that all of them are is as naive as believing that none of them are. You will also find musical acts of all styles, including Country Western, Easily Listening etc that carry Satanic ideas, not just Rock and Roll.

If you check my blogger profile you will see that one of my favorite groups is the Christian Rock group Petra. Below is a song by them. I don't much care for the video but listen to the lyrics. It is definitely NOT Satanic.

If you don't like or care for Rock music, that's fine with me, but don't insist that it is inherently evil simply because you do not like it.

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

No Religious Christmas . . . or Hanukkah Either.

Christians and Christmas aren't the only ones having problems keeping the religious nature of their holidays.

Jews too

In Israel of all places.

An Israeli community awakened to find its Hanukkah Menorah smashed to pieces and it was done by the leader of the community.

Assaf was quoting(sic) telling town residents he was afraid of an "infiltration" of religious Jews into his community or that local secular Jews would become more observant.

As the article points out, it is Judaism's most secular holiday. Fear of Religion is a serious phobia suffered by many secular thinkers. Religion can be dangerous when it used by evil men, but Christianity and Judaism are inherently good religions of a truly divine origin.

Sunday, December 09, 2007

Imagine No Religion

Taken from that song by John Lennon

Some want us to imagine it would be a world without violence after all wasn't it religious fanatics who brought down the World Trade Center.

Such a display has been erected.

Yes I can picture a world without religion.

I can picture Hitler's regime. (Hitler was an Atheist who used religion as and when it suited him.)

I can picture Stalin's gulags and purges.

I can picture Mao's Cultural Revolution.

I can picture Pol Pot's Killing Fields

Need I continue?

All of the above were Atheistic regimes. Now you may say I am being unfair because not all Atheists are like that.

Perhaps. Maybe the people who made that monument need to think about that.

Religion has also driven charity. It was religious leaders who opposed slavery, who supported universal suffrage (though not the nonsense supported by modern feminists.) It was religious leadership that fought for civil rights, that spoke for temperance in the use of alcohol. Most western universities were established by religious authorities as were a huge number of hospitals, orphanages and poor houses. It was religious people who first complained about pollution (though again not to the nutty extreme of some modern environmentalists.) In all of these areas Atheists are Johnny-Come-Latelys.

We do not know what the world would be like without religion but a few things are clear. It would be a world of despair and grief as death would be the ultimate reality and the destroyer of all hopes and dreams and in the end . . .

Destroying what he chanced to make in play
The idiot Chaos blew earth's dust away.
H.P. Lovecraft

Even the universe is doomed. Life becomes a pointless line between conception and death, regardless of whether we are talking about an individual, a species, an ecosystem, or a universe.

Yes I can easily imagine a world without religion.

It would be world without faith, hope, or charity. Only the despair of the coming oblivion and the pointlessness of existence.

I am grateful that there is a God and He is the God of Israel and Christianity.

Saturday, December 08, 2007

What I Want in a President

I have not spoken much about this because, quite frankly, I am discouraged.

On one side, there isn't an ounce of common sense in the entire Democratic field.

On the other side, there isn't a whole lot more in the GOP field.

What I want.

Acid Test Will appoint strict-constructionist justices to the courts. The Constitution specifically outlines the responsibilities of the Federal government and gives specific rights to the individuals. The states are absolutely sovereign on any issue not specifically mentioned in the Constitution. There is no other honest way to interpret the Constitution. The "Living Document" doctrine is nothing but a high-sounding excuse to ignore the Constitution. A lot of our problems and needless political divisions comes from the Feds, especially unelected bureaucrats, seriously overstepping the bounds of the Constitution. If the Feds need to do something that is not allowed by the Constitution, there is Constitutional means of amending it.

Acid Test Will defend the sovereignty, territorial integrity and cultural unity of this nation and its constituent states. By cultural I mean language, acceptable public behavior etc. A president must put America ahead of the UN, NATO, NAFTA, etc. We may remain part of these organizations but we make the final decision on what we do. We can and should work with other countries but our own interests come first.

Acid Test Recognizes the first amendment as primarily the right to tell the truth and state honestly held opinions (even if it is offensive to official victim groups) and will defend it as such. Recognizes the second amendment as an individual right to arm themselves.

Acid Test Recognizes that militant Islam is, at this point in time, the biggest threat America faces. (Though we do have other threats such as illegal immigration that also need to be dealt with and cannot be ignored.)

I do not expect a saint but I do expect a person to be a cut above the average in personal integrity. Everyone has a few skeletons in their closet, but when their closet is graveyard we have real problems.

I prefer but do not demand

An honorably discharged or retired veteran of the armed forces.

A person who has raised a family (disqualifies me but that's alright - - I'm not running!)

A person who has worked in both the private and public sector, preferably one has profitably run a real business. (If you can't run a business how the heck can you run a country.)

They can't be from Mars or Venus (which eliminates Mr Paul.)

No one like that on the horizon. I will vote for the lesser of two evils again (which generally means GOP).

Thursday, December 06, 2007

It's Thursday

I have not been spending a lot of time blogging of late for two reasons.

1) I am fighting a cold and thus sleeping a lot (which seems to be no fun at all).

2) I have discovered Share TV where you can watch old shows to your heart's content. I have watched episodes of several shows that I haven't seen in years. (Which is a lot of fun!)

Tuesday, December 04, 2007

29 Is Way too Young

to be a Grandmother.

This is not a pretty scene at all.

This line really bothers me. The all-too-young Grandmother said regarding her daughter “Everybody’s gotta make their own decisions and your own choices, too,” Leticia said. “But she’s cool. She’s gonna be all right.”

I'm sorry but when women under 30 are called Grandma something is seriously wrong.

Contraception might help but what we really need is morality and chastity. Contrary to Hollywood's opinion, chastity never killed anyone and people don't die of horniness.


Today I received a couple of bizarre E-mails that have me scratching my head.

They appear to be mass mailings.

refectory marina concourse refectory dispelled lockstep drumhead walkie low adroit
lockstep transmission adroit hertz lockstep fillip
impersonate ogle lutheran pygmalion ambulatory demonic nimble ambulatory marina epileptic
command perturb strop diversion wastebasket marsupial
aaas churchyard hertz wastebasket marsupial concourse command refectory
adroit servitor
auckland marina epileptic oneida drumhead churchyard brickbat low
walkie rawhide diversion command walkie thomistic nimble fillip
brickbat dyeing preempt mass hertz perturb preempt primitive drumhead

teeing slew lethargy leucine jarvin ancillary tendon
whack bowdoin
slew tendon shotbush

definitive eveready definitive ordinal periclean tenacity reason teeing shotbush sladang squaw
metropolis gerard bathroom cf sibling jarvin
cloudy periclean basil gerard
bathroom oral headsman
ninefold bathroom teeing brindisi cf

Does anyone have any idea what this is all about. There was nothing attached or hidden in the file, the source means nothing to me, and I am definitely puzzled.

Sunday, December 02, 2007

A Simple Thought.

What do you want with the government? What do you want them to do and what don't you want them to do?

I knew a crotchety old guy who answered that question like this.

Keep the streets straight, clean, and safe and everything else will take care of itself.

I doubt if it's that simple, yet when you think about it, in many ways, that just about sums it up.

Make it possible to live and take care of yourself and most people will. Keep what we share in working order and keep the bad guys away from us and perhaps it will be possible for us to solve most of our own problems.

No it isn't that simple. Far from it.

But maybe it's a good place to start.

Saturday, December 01, 2007

Michigan Does It Again

Whenever there is trouble or embarrassment at a state level, it seems that these days Michigan is in the middle of it.

I have been watching this story with a bit of disbelief for a while now.

Michigan's Democratic Party will be having their primary on January 15th of '08. There is a little problem with that. The DNC has decided that Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada all should have their primary votes before anyone else does. As a result several big name Democrats, with the notable exception of Hillary and all the minor candidates, have not had their names put on the ballot. Also the DNC has decided not to seat any delegates from Michigan in the convention.

The State Democratic Party does expect the situation to last and that the delegates will eventually be seated and I tend to agree with them on this point.

I also agree with their grievance that has led to the early primary.

Michigan officials defended their early primary, saying it helps provide geographic, racial and economic diversity early in the primary calendar. They also complained that other states that were allowed to hold early votes were receiving preferential treatment.

Michigan is tired of being ignored.

The whole thing is silly.

Personally, I would rather see all primaries and caucuses for both parties held quickly in a short time frame so that the citizens of all states could have a shot at all candidates. The main problem is that the nomination could be unsettled when the convention begins but I really don't see that as a problem, but possibly an improvement. It would make the convention no longer a coronation but a time of deliberation and decision making, which it was originally intended to be.

For the record, Florida has done the same thing.